Pinderkent

Guido van Rossum, of Python fame, recently twittered about how using CSS instead of tables for Web page layout just isn't worth it. This was submitted to Reddit, and the discussion it generated there is somewhat predictable. Many of the comments get into the typical arguments surrounding the topics of HTML tables versus CSS for layout, and the necessity of separating content from presentation. But I think most of the comments that are currently there miss some key issues.

First of all, a number of the posters point out that once you learn the many quirks and incompatibilities of the various popular Web browsers, CSS-based layout becomes quite natural. To a great extent, this is true. There are many Web designers out there who can make very good looking sites using CSS. Unfortunately, it takes literally years of effort, learning, experimentation and failure to get to this point. And with browser technology continually evolving, it takes further effort just to keep pace.

Now, some people will argue that any inherently complex task will take much time and effort to master, and they're correct. But in this case, CSS-based layout shouldn't be such a task. Reality, however, shows that it is, mainly due to artificial difficulties created by low-quality, inconsistent and obsolete-yet-widely-used Web browsers.

Another thing to consider is that not everybody wants to make complex Web layouts. Many people who aren't Web designers want to quickly throw together a site that has a relatively simple layout, and looks decent. On one hand, they can battle with the many troubles that CSS brings to inexperienced users. On the other, they can just use HTML tables, which for many simple layout tasks end up being much more practical and efficient to work with.

CSS should be able to cater to people in both camps, namely those professionals who want to develop complex pages with a high degree of control, and those who just want to throw together a page quickly and easily. Unfortunately, it fails both groups of people a lot of the time. The trend seems to be that most professional designers struggle with it until they finally learn how to wrangle it, most of the time. By that point they've invested so much time and effort that the only way they can obtain some degree of payback is to employ their hard-earned "knowledge", which itself is more an understanding of numerous broken and poorly-implemented Web browsers than anything else. And those people who deem their time better spent on other tasks, like Guido, apparently, just resort to HTML tables.

The fact that the CSS versus HTML tables debate has raged for so long should suggest that CSS is a dead end. It doesn't do a sufficient job in fixing the huge variety of problems associated with what should otherwise be a straightforward task. Perhaps Internet Explorer 8's better support for the CSS table model will help improve the situation. Then again, it may just make things worse. Perhaps the only solution is to throw out the sub par technologies that we employ now, and find a better way to solve the problems of Webpage layout.

Recently, Adrian Bateman of Microsoft raised some questions, concerns and thoughts about HTML 5. Although Microsoft doesn't have the best reputation for supporting and complying with standards, especially when it comes to Web technologies, we shouldn't use those feelings as an excuse to ignore these questions. Had some other non-Microsoft individual or organization made these same remarks, they'd be just as valid and just as worthy of some serious consideration.

A number of questions are raised about the necessity of a number of the new elements. Indeed, many of the new section elements of HTML 5 do seem quite unnecessary. The use of <div> or <span> tags with an associated class should be more than sufficient replacements.

The same goes for the proposed <dialog> element, which is meant for representing a back-and-forth conversation between parties. Aside from the lack of necessity for this element, I personally don't like its name very much. Within the field of software development, the term "dialog" is often used to refer to dialog boxes, which is the first thing that comes to my mind when I see that tag. However, dialog boxes and the <dialog> tag are clearly two very different concepts.

With respect to some of the new tags relating to time and date handling, I have to agree with Adrian's description of such handling as "notoriously complex". Earlier this year I wrote about how care is needed when implementing time and date handling. But now HTML 5 seems to be opening this can of worms with its new <time> tag, and its <input> tag changes. I hope these new elements don't just introduce more problems than they solve.

The <bb> element sounds quite questionable. Aside from the completely non-descriptive tag name, the security implications of this element are obvious. Thankfully, both Microsoft and Mozilla seem aware of the potential dangers of this element.

The <progress> and <meter> elements theoretically sound useful, but I suspect that in reality, they just wouldn't be flexible enough for most Web developers. If their appearance couldn't be heavily modified, they'd likely just be passed over in favor of existing image-based approaches.

HTML 5 has always felt like a hodge-podge of different ideas from various groups, thrown together and called a "standard". It's good to see some realistic, solid criticism from one of the major Web browser developers. Hopefully their input will help HTML 5 resolve some of these issues surrounding unnecessary, impractical and potentially dangerous elements and changes.